Today Patty is talking to Michael Trotta, a long-time friend and fellow coach. He is a self-described storyteller and mischief maker and he’s sharing his personal journey with us today.
He left a teaching career that he had loved right up until changes meant the focus was on test results and not on students. To find some peace of mind, he turned to nature and that opened him up to a world of knowledge from indigenous cultures.
Michael and his wife Lynn started nature courses for children. It was rewarding work and led him to coach training and the realization that he wanted to work with adults.
He explains that many of us are missing the meaning of our own stories and his work helps people figure that out.
Our brains are literally wired for story which is why it’s so compelling when it is done well. Michael shares his insights on myths and fairy tales and why they are so powerful for adults – not just for children.
Michael also shares how he helps people (business owners and others) use stories and storytelling to create relationships that lead to transformation. It’s powerful!
Stories can reveal to us the places where wounds exist. It’s the first step to healing.
Why myths and fairy tales? Michael explains that the are captured moments of the conscious collective. They were not written by one specific person; they were often a collection of dreams and stories shared in community.
Hear Michael’s story that compelled him to leave his teaching career. It’s compelling and inspiring. Check out his podcast and make sure to get on his email list for access to his free training.
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0:00:04.3 S1: Welcome to the space for magic podcast, where people who are led by their hearts come to learn the secrets to receiving all the gifts the Universe has for us. I’m your host, Patty Lennon. I’m an ex-type a corporate banker, turned intuitive coach using a blend of common sense brain science and just a dash of magic, I’m here to help you create abundance in every area of your life and business. Welcome. Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of the space for magic podcast, and I have a special guest today. He is my oldest coaching friend, so he was the very first person I became friends with as a coach in the coaching world, but he’s so much more than that. So my guess is Michael Trotta, he is a storyteller. He is, as I said, a coach. He is so many things. Mentor, mischief maker, and obsessed with fly fishing. He was a former school teacher who gave up his… What he thought was his guaranteed path, his life as a teacher, to hit the unknown road, and Michael and I have been on this journey since day one, and both have experienced a lot of twists and turns in our life path, in our business path.
0:01:29.1 S1: And today, Michael’s gonna share with us why story is so important to us, especially in this day and age, and how to make it work for you, so… Welcome, Michael.
0:01:41.7 S2: Okay, thanks for having me.
0:01:43.7 S1: Yeah, thanks for being here. So I wanna go back to when you start, you left the teaching world, you didn’t jump into coaching… Right, correct. So talk a little bit about what your early journey was like from leaving that sort of traditional career to the place that we’re in, or you’re so passionate about helping people use story to unlock their genius, to redefine their life, I would say. But probably putting words in your mouth. They’re… Oh God.
0:02:16.1 S2: And what’s their story? Yeah, so as a school teacher, I absolutely loved teaching. And then something happened, like everything changed literally overnight with some new federal initiatives, and suddenly the thing that I love doing became about test scores and paperwork, and it was more about numbers than children, and I did what I could to sort of fight the rising tide, but I was fighting people who had never touched talk and had lots of power, so it was really frustrating obviously, and I became increasingly depressed and frustrated, and in my frustration among the things that I did was I started to look into… Well, first nature became a big part of my path at that point because it was a place where I found peace and stillness, and in that pursuit, I started to learn about and from indigenous cultures about how they created communities for learning, how they educated their children, and what I was learning and found absolutely blew my world view apart, I couldn’t believe what I was learning and how it was all done in this invisible manner, like how a person… So first of, I should say, the community would be built around the idea of educating the children, and educating the children would be built around the idea of putting them in touch with their genius or medicine, that thing that made them uniquely who they are, because it was understood that the tribe would be strongest if everybody was in touch with that part of themselves.
0:04:03.7 S2: Right? Now, how they facilitated that was done in a million different ways, but one of those ways was storytelling, which is where I really first fell in love with the possibility of it, so after years of being frustrated and actually after being told a story by an elder that was like this, a pivotal moment of awakening in my life. I laughed, I quit the next day, I said, I’m not coming back next year. And shortly after that, with my wife Lynn, we put together a nature-based coach or nature-based mentoring programs for kids, and we did that for a bunch of years, it was amazing, the challenge of it was while we were able to fill the programs for a couple of years, once I was out of the school system for a while, nobody knew who I was, so it started to dawn on me that running a business and being good at what you do are different, and I don’t know why it was a surprise to me, but it was… And so I had to learn how to run a business and somehow that led to me becoming a coach where you and I met, and I found myself drawn to working with adults all of a sudden, and so it became about using nature and…
0:05:23.6 S2: Nature-based practices to coach and mentor people, and just over the years, I keep and always circle back to story and storytelling, and so now I’m using stories to help connect people to their genius, to help them define and craft and tell their own stories so that they can communicate and connect with the people that most need. What they have to offer the world.
0:05:50.0 S1: I love this approach because I feel like the busier and the busier and the busier that the world gets, the more information that’s out there, the harder it is for us to retain information, whether it’s about another person or an idea, or learning, but always What works is story, no matter where you are, if someone no matter how chaotic it is, if someone’s at the front of the room or in a conversation and they drop into story and story… That’s good. Right now, not just someone kind of riffing about themselves, but an actual story crafted… It’s like time slows down.
0:06:37.0 S2: Yeah, it speaks to some ancient primal part of ourselves, our brains are literally Wired for Story, and that’s caught on in recent years, it’s become a thing, like everybody’s kind of getting the idea that stories, what connects us, but I think there’s a particular context that’s missing that we don’t understand, we’re trying to commodify stories, we’re trying to use them solely to make a sale, and it can be effective for doing that, but I think a certain something soulful gets lost and you can see that sort of missing thing, if you can see a missing thing evidenced in how most of us perceive stories like myths and fairy tales without the proper context, they seem like children’s stories, when in fact, I think they’re profoundly deep and offer a treasure trove of possibility for people to do some really powerful transformational work. So yes, storytelling, yes. Your own storytelling done in a certain way, and it has to be good, obviously. And also not losing sight of the fact that there are stories that are thousands of years old that are probably on your bookshelf right now, or your kid’s bookshelf that I held, if you will, in a certain way, you’ve experienced and explored in that context that I’m talking about…
0:08:10.9 S2: They can be absolutely mind-blowing and life-changing.
0:08:15.3 S1: So I love this because I think people are really… First of all, let me just stop and say, this isn’t just for someone who’s trying to sell something, their business, Anyone can apply this methodology, it’s just that you typically work with business owners…
0:08:30.7 S2: No, not actually, my work, that is what I was doing when I… I’m gonna be honest with, when I really put my focus in two stories and storytelling, I had one foot firmly, placed, camped in this is how you grow your business, but now I’m shifting a bit energetically, where I’m saying, Yes, you can use this for your business, but I don’t even want you to think about it for your business, because in some ways that can corrupt the possibility, I want you to think about this solely as a way to create transformation and build relationship if it leads to business. Awesome, but don’t make that the forefront of engaging with story, make it about building connections and the right people who do need you will show up.
0:09:21.3 S1: And can this be applied then for someone who isn’t interested in having a business who’s maybe in a crossroads of their life and is not sure who they are anymore, I think people… Yeah, go ahead.
0:09:36.7 S2: With T’s primarily who I work with, people who are in that place where the old system, the old pattern, it may have worked, but it wasn’t sustainable, they may have wound up in a job or a career or a relationship that… At the beginning looked like all the things they were supposed to want, but after a given amount of time, it sort of turned into something else, and now they’re in a place in their life where, like you said, at a crossroads, like What’s next? If it wasn’t that, and if that old system didn’t work that whole way of figuring out who I was on the school path, or the career path, or the parent path or whatever, if that didn’t get me where I thought I was gonna be, so what… How do I do this? And I think engaging with stories and the mythic work that I do is a way that can help you identify that deeper, truer, that medicine part of yourself that I talked about with the indigenous cultures, and if you build from there… It’s a whole different game.
0:10:39.8 S1: And I feel the power in this, so when this episode drops were recording a little bit earlier, but when this episode, jobs were on the cusp of the new year, and I know that puts people into both hopefulness and crisis, so someone’s listening and they’re feeling this… I’m at a crossroads where I just feel maybe a little lost or there’s a fork in the road, and I literally have no idea which path to choose. Can you just talk a little bit about how you would start with someone in story in helping them? What does that process look like? Or if you can do it at this 10000 foot level.
0:11:20.6 S2: Sure, I usually start by just asking some questions like, Where are you finding yourself right now, what do you perceive the problem being, usually people… They can feel that sense of stuck-ness or confusion or uncertainty, but they’ve been trying to, like I was saying before, logic their way through it, but that’s not working, and yet their system, they’re still trying to logic their way… If I just had an answer to this, if I just knew what the solution was, if I had that sort of thing, and so then I invite them to try something different with a story, and a part of that is teaching people, reminding people how to be with story, and all of us, at least educated in Western culture, have been taught to analyze, to logic story, to break it down to find the meaning, to dissect it into all of its parts, but when we do that, something happens to the spirit of it. And so the invitation I offer people is to just feel the story and to notice what wants to show itself, and then I tell them a story, typically an old myth, often… It comes to me, I’m not sure what I’m gonna tell them, but as they’re talking, a story comes to mind, and then I tell it, and afterwards, I’ll normally ask them to just notice what they notice, which is weird because they’re used to being told, so what does it mean…
0:12:52.4 S2: And then a couple of things tend to happen when they start noticing emotions show up that don’t make sense to them, which is totally okay, and I have to reassure them that that’s okay. And to not force it. Thoughts come up sometimes from their past, like it brings up memories. And there’s this old saying that, No, maybe it’s not that old, but a storytelling sort of mentor of mine would call these kinds of stories, myths and fairy tales, Psycho-diagnostic, that they reveal to us the place where wounds exist, and when that happens, when we can… Re-examine the wounds that happened from the place of the story, that healing can happen. And so when a person says, Oh, it reminds me of this time when… I just say that’s pretty interesting, and things tend to unfold from there, it’s sort of like a re-patterning of their brain and thought structure, and what I’m attempting to do is help them build what I would call a mythological understanding of the world so that they can… Use mythological in tandem and relationship with logical… Most of us have the logical all figured out, it’s the mythological…
0:14:07.4 S2: You might call it magic, that I think people are hungry to build a relationship to…
0:14:13.9 S1: I think that word is so accurate, the hungry piece of it, that’s what I sense from a lot of people that I’m talking to is, I think especially now, after… We’re still in the pandemic to a certain extent, but as the world’s trying to go back to normal, putting quotes and will likely never be back to the old normal, there is a sense of, Okay, the cravings that I used to try and satisfy this hunger with or clear the illusions. No, those things that I went after, the things I grasp for, partly because they don’t work, and partly because now they can see through them without those… They’re left wanting… If someone’s listening and they’re like, What does this mean for me? Would you suggest that they go back and read one of their favorite stories or… What’s.
0:15:10.7 S2: A stepping point was the next thing to do. Yeah, I would probably recommend engaging with some sort of myth versus your favorite story, stories are amazing, and there’s lots of great stories that have been crafted by authors that do just what I’m talking about, that lift us up, that let us escape that, help us make connections to parts of ourselves that might have been at a distance, but myths and fairytales are unique, and they’re unique because they’re not authored by any one individual. That’s really important to remember. I don’t think most people understand that myths and fairy tales have been collected by people who may have put their little spin on it, but for the most part in their truest form, they are captured moments of the collective unconscious, a lot of psychologists and anthropologists to look at-myths have suggested that what they are are the results of people dreaming, and it was a common practice thousands of years ago, if not sooner, when people would gather around the fire in the morning or even at night and share the dreams that they had, and not surprisingly, when you live in a particular cultural context, people have similar dreams, and so they’d get together and be like, Oh, I had this dream about this thing, and there was this figure, and then somebody be like, Oh, I had a similar dream, and this is what happened.
0:16:44.4 S2: I went like this, and over time, the idea is that they began to reveal a story, they started to show a story, and those in many ways became the mythology of that culture, helping them understand where they came from, why they were here, helping them to unite under common visions, providing them with an identity, but the significance of the idea that these stories are rooted in dream time awareness is really something, that’s why I suggest myths and fairy tales, and when you engage with them, do so just from the place, not trying to analyze it but just to notice, now I’ll say this though, Paddy, because our sort of mythological muscle is atrophied and we have so many years of conditioning to think logically, sometimes that first step can lead to results of… Yeah, I don’t get it. What’s that about? That’s weird, and I don’t wanna do that. So not to plug myself, but what I would recommend is that people engage with podcasts like mine, story mischief, Michael Mead, who’s a story tellers, another… He has one called The Living myth podcast, and then there’s Martin Shaw. Another great book is, if women rose rooted by Sharon Blackie, these authors have a really, I think, a wonderful way of exploring myths and fairy tales that help our minds start to re-engage with that mythological sense, and when we can do that, the things that are happening in our lives are factual, but they’re also myth a lot, you can see almost like a bigger picture of events in your life when you see the word mythologically.
0:18:34.4 S2: And for me, it starts with myths and fairytales, and having resources like those podcasts and books to kind of shake off the cobwebs and get that world view or a way of seeing the world can be incredibly helpful.
0:18:49.8 S1: That’s so helpful. My goal, I’m curious, my mind’s going in so many directions. Okay, so now I think The Hero’s Journey, would that be considered a myth or is that… Are there many myths that I kind of… Show the hero’s journey.
0:19:09.2 S2: Yeah, so this might make an interesting segue, The Hero’s Journey is Joseph Campbell’s observation. Joseph Campbell is a mythologist anthropologist, and he studied myths from around the world, and he started to recognize that all of these myths were saying the same thing, and within that, what he did was break down this 12-stage path, if you will, that represented each of the stages that seemed to be happening within these myths. And he called the hero’s journey. Now, since then, that was in the 40s. Others have come along and made other observations, the heroines journey, noticing how when you find heroines in stories, the path is slightly different. Others have noticed something they call the Genius myth, where not all mythologies are talking about a hero, but they’re talking about building relationship to one’s genius or medicine. What I’ve done actually recently is, because of a lot of criticisms about the masculine and feminine, I’ve actually overlaid several of those patterns and noticed an observation that as many of them are talking about initiatory experiences, and being someone who’s facilitated initiations for 20 years, it’s really interesting to see all of these myths are similar to the hero’s journey are forms of initiation, initiation being an introduction to an identity of who we really are in our lifetime, there’s several places in life where we…
0:20:52.3 S2: Natural places of initiation, birth and death. There’s one, when we go from childhood to adolescence, typically adolescence to adulthood, adulthood to elder hood, those are common places of initiation, and then there’s sort of intermediate initiations that take place, and so the old idea is that we get initiated all throughout our lives, we go through this birth, death, rebirth cycle, and part of the function of a formal initiation is to help us learn how to do that, so that when the big initiation comes at the end of our lives, we welcome it. It’s just another step in the journey. It’s not something to fear, and stories can help with that, Martin Shaw, one of my favorite quotes is, what would it be like to live in a culture that meant we didn’t walk backwards into our own death and that’s it, and I think stories, an initiation in this initiation pattern that I’m talking about helps us with that, and it also helps with the intermediate initiations. So again, one of the things I help people do is to sort of wake up to and build a relationship to that part of themselves, that genius or that medicine, this story pattern that I’ve identified helps them with their own story.
0:22:15.5 S1: Beautiful, I love that. So the reason I asked about the hero’s journey is because you had said, Miss, help us make sense. And I have found that dark night of the soul, it’s a concept that brought me tremendous comfort through many times of my life to bring context to… This is part of a bigger story. This is not the end of the story. This is actually something I’ve been talking about a lot lately. My goal is, many people are in this crisis, may be a minor crisis, it might be emotional, psychological material right now for different reasons. And I keep saying within my Communities, the reason you feel so much pain right now is because you think this is the end of the story and you’re in the middle, and is there a way when someone is in that place for them to frame their story or is that sort of a middle step, and if they haven’t… I don’t know what un-atrophied their muscle, their myth muscle is… Or am I going with this? God, God, can I jump in a jump in… Hopefully, you’re meeting in.
0:23:38.0 S2: A year… Well, what I’m hearing you talk about is the place in the initiatory path, right before we’re awakening happens, it’s that dark night of its darkest before the dawn of idea, and from both a mythological point of view and also a psychological point of view, what’s happening in that moment is the final breakdown of the ego, of the thing that’s keeping you attached to the old way of being, and in that place, there is a tension of opposites, this pull between where you were and what’s next… Does that make sense? Yes, yes. And in order, the thing is about this tension of opposites is we can either experience it as a tension or we can experience it as suffering, and maybe this seems too simple, but for me, it was very helpful just to have that discernment recognizing, I can have suffering right now, or I can just feel that this is uncomfortable right now, and I know that because I’ve gone through this initiator cycle so many times in my life before, that the tension eventually ends as soon as I’m ready… And ready to let go of the old identity. What wants to come through? We’ll come through and I can make the step further, but I find that when you turn that tension in the suffering, it tends to lengthen the process and certainly make it far more painful and difficult.
0:25:17.9 S1: I love that distinction because I think that… That’s perfect, Michael. And I think that’s when we are experiencing in a suffering, most of our energy goes to trying to escape it, which actually keeps us in it, ’cause we’re using our energy, our thoughts, everything we’re doing is trying to get back to where… It wasn’t like that.
0:25:42.2 S2: Correct. We wanna go back to what was what we knew, the norm west, but there’s a new norm coming, and you can either embrace new norm, whatever that’s going to be, or you can suffer and try to cling desperately to the old one. But the journey’s already begun. You can put yourself into a holding pattern and just be like, I’m not going anywhere, I’m staying in between what’s new and what I remember, but that’s where you kind of cycle and suffer and a lot of people get there and in that place, it can be confusing and uncomfortable, and I think unfortunately, we’ve become comfortable with the discomfort and then that becomes the normal, and if we are able to surrender, I think is probably the word to the tension, eventually we’re gonna come into something new, and I’ve never not known the next thing to be better. It’s always better. It’s always more alive, more awake because it’s who you are. Another way of looking at it, metaphorically speaking, would be like if you’re a snake trying to shed your skin, but you refuse to let the old skin go and you’re gonna wear it and you can’t see clearly ’cause it’s still on, and you’re dragging the disgusting thing around, but you just let that shit go and I know it’s easier said than done.
0:27:02.9 S2: But yeah, I think that’s just another way of looking at what is happening.
0:27:07.8 S1: So now I have so many thoughts, I can’t even get to them all because I’m gonna have to have you back on so I can… But there was a book I’m reading right now, Richard or he has a lot of books, but his book is two halves, and he talks about that there is these two halves of life, and essentially a lot of what he says up front, he’s… In the Christian tradition, but he’s talking in the first 10 pages, 20 pages of the book, he’s talking all about myth, but that in the first half of life, and not everyone moves to the second half of life, and that the first half of life is essentially dictated these are not his words, but they’re dictated by ego, and that the second half of the life is dictated more by the soul, and many people stay only in their first half of life until death, and this is a time where you focus on what you can acquire how big your house is? Security, basically the bottom of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. And the second half is about that the higher part of Maslow’s hierarchy, and I’m totally putting words into his mouth here, but this is what I take from it, is that in the first half of life, you’re not capable of seeing life through this mythological perspective, and I’m curious if you feel that.
0:28:36.8 S2: You know what? I don’t know the answer. I don’t know that I disagree with him though, what I’m thinking about is in a healthy, balanced, complete cultural container where people have their physical needs met, but also like I was suggesting that, and I always talked tribal because it’s… Nature-based cultures where I see it and have seen it looking back, like best exemplified, where people do go through initiator experiences and rights of passes to help them make it to that second half of life, so they become the ones who tell and facilitate the stories and connection to it, and they’re telling it to the people in the first half of life, it’s not a common of a child, here’s a myth. They hear a story. Right, but it’s the community’s job to put other things in place so that when they come to the threshold of transformation towards the second half of life, all of a sudden those stories become something far more than that, they become a power, and they’ve had their whole early half of their lives to develop that first… It’s almost like you learn the ego side, the logic side of the story when you’re younger, so that when you’re ready to carry the deeper, spiritual significant meaning of it, then you can step into the fuller side…
0:30:00.5 S2: The spiritual side of it.
0:30:01.2 S1: Yes, and you used a word that was important, Indies book, he’s talking about our current culture, that it really prevents people from getting to that second life.
0:30:13.8 S2: Right, and I would say that a part of that is because we stress so much on the logical mind, we’ve lost a relationship with the mythological mind, and I personally track that back to our separation from a relationship with the natural world, once we went from being caretakers, and lived in a more circular harmonic relationship, both with nature and community, and transitioned into a more domination kind of structure about 10000 years ago, where it became about haves and have nots, rulers, power. That’s when things started to shift.
0:30:53.0 S1: There’s a lot of time back there. Alright, I know before we had started, you were telling me that you’re working on something called the initiates of adventure now that as a time we’re recording it, it’s not out yet, if it is, when we release the podcast, we’ll drop a link to it in the show notes, but can you talk a little bit about what that is and what your motivation is for creating it?
0:31:20.6 S2: Totally. So the offer is gonna be called the initiates adventure building connections through transformational story telling, and I’m gonna share that story pattern that I’ve recognized that shows up in a lot of myths that reflects that… The transformational pattern, the initiator pattern that I’ve been talking about, and I’m going to in the free class, I’m gonna be naming what that pattern is and giving an explanation of each step, and that should be enough to get people started and what it will allow you to do is not only engage with myths and fairy tales and other stories through the lens of this pattern, so you can start to see, Oh, this thing shows up everywhere, and that allows you to start to see it in your own life. So what that will allow you to do is tell stories in a way like… I’ve had a lot of people say, How do you… I know that story, but I couldn’t tell it like you, I could say the same words, but why is it that you created a transformation in this room with these people somehow, and I say that that’s because I understand each of the stages of transformational pattern, and so I can tell a story in a particular way to a particular audience, so that the transformation that’s happening in the story starts to happen in the people, and so I’m gonna start to teach people how to do that using myths and fairy tales, but also how they can take their own life story and life events and make greater meaning of it through the lens of this, and whether they choose to then go and share that story with other people or just for themselves is totally up to them, but telling stories, telling your story through the lens of this pattern naturally engages with people because we’re not conditioned, we’re wired to know this pattern, and so when people hear stories that follow the pattern, they pay more attention because they can see themselves in it, so the offer is gonna be a free…
0:33:22.9 S2: Probably an hour-long class with the invitation to join me for a much deeper, deeper dive into it.
0:33:29.9 S1: I’m so hopeful that it’s out by the time this drop so that people can grab it ’cause I know they’re gonna be left of wanting if they can. So if that is not available, is there something that other than the podcast, ’cause I will say If you’re listening, check out storing this chef Michael’s podcast is excellent. And where else can they connect with you? Yeah.
0:33:55.0 S2: If you go to my website, story, MI dot com, there will be a link to sign up to Micheal, my weekly email that where I will also… If you sign up for it, you’ll find out about the initiatives journey course. I also send out links and little previews to weekly podcasts as well as typically explore some sort of mythic theme, like some of the ones that we’ve been talking here, so that you can start to incorporate it in your life and start to see the world through more mythological lens.
0:34:29.5 S1: Awesome, okay, well, we’ll put those links in the show notes as well, so I have a last question for you, this may actually be a pretty big question, Michael, so you do your best…
0:34:40.1 S2: I’m not short on words, obviously.
0:34:42.9 S1: If you could travel back in time to yourself, when I met you, when you were starting out on the coaching journey, or maybe it was the day you were leaving your teaching job, and you could tell yourself a story, a myth, a fairy tale that you felt would have been most helpful for you at that crossroads, what would it be…
0:35:08.3 S2: I have a loaded answer because it was a story, a myth that I was carrying with me at that time, that was the reason that I finally left my job, and it was the story that just was with me through the whole process of the story of jumping mouse, and it’s the one that I still work with today. That’s the beautiful thing about myths and fairytales, in my opinion, is when one grabs a hold of you, they don’t tend to let go right away, and they can become long-term companions… You didn’t ask this, but I will say that I do believe that myths are their own living things, and just like you might say, guides are… Or their own entities, and I work with them probably similar as you do with guides, and so that was one… It’s been with me and still is to this day.
0:36:14.6 S1: And jumping Mass was the first podcast episode that you did…
0:36:19.2 S2: No, I have not done a podcast on it actually was a one that… I hear that and it’s really funny, you know people… When you build a relationship with myth, at least my experience has been, you don’t have all the say, they tell you… And so like when I first came into relationship with jumping mouse, I was eager to tell it, but it wasn’t ready to be told through me, and it literally took years before I told it, and so what happens is when I come in contact with a myth that grabs me. Some of them are for me just to be with, others are for me to tell eventually, and for whatever reason, jumping mouse has not said, Hey, let’s do a podcast yet, so if it does, then… Sure. As of now, it hasn’t given me that information.
0:37:14.7 S1: It’s coming, I feel like… Alright, well, thank you so much for your time. My goal, this has been so mind-opening, I am so excited for what you’re doing in the world, and I’m so excited for those of you listening to connect with Michael, he is, like I said, we have been on this story for so many years together, I can’t believe it. And he is definitely one of the good guys.
0:37:41.7 S2: Thank you and thank you for having me on this. Pleasure.
0:37:45.0 S1: Alright, everyone. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the space for magic podcast. Go check out my goals podcast. It is awesome, it is one of those podcasts that you can listen to when you’re walking, when you need some time to yourself, you need to reconnect with yourself, it is going to open your mind and your heart. So we’ll put all that in the show notes, have a beautiful back. Hey, thanks for listening. If you know someone who needs to hear this message, please share this episode with them, and if you’re feeling really generous, I’d love for you to leave us a review at your favorite podcast app, it helps us reach many more people and it fills my heart with so much joy when I hear what you have to say about what I’ve shared. I’m cheering for your success, have an amazing day, and don’t forget… Always create space for Magic. This podcast is part of the sounded bicep in network. Sound advice, FM, women’s voices, amplifie.